Is it the infamous hot soak......

[holywolf]

Thanks to Tim for directing me here.

It is quite possible I have the hot soak on my newly acquired TV.

I am new to these vans.
The PO did replace the FPR but it still happened to me. So possibly could have been a bad replacement part or replacing the FPR won't help.

I will be paying more attention to the gasoline I use. I do not think concoco uses ethanol but I will double check.

What about using fuel treatment like sea foam or like products? Anyone attempt to saturate their fuel system with this to see if it helps?

[timsrv]

I have also installed an 89 FPR on my 86 van & it was not enough to make a noticeable difference. I also tried different brands of gasoline & that didn't seem to make much difference either. As a result I believe gasoline with a high boiling point is a thing of the past. Ventilating the engine compartment did the trick for me. To test yours, you may want to lift the engine access when making your stops during the day. If this eliminates your starting issues, then your problem is heat soak. Tim

PS: As a general rule I don't believe in, nor do I use automotive additives. Some may work, but I think most of them are a waste of money. Just my $.02.

[holywolf]

PS: As a general rule I don't believe in, nor do I use automotive additives. Some may work, but I think most of them are a waste of money. Just my $.02.

I agree for the most part. But sea foam works. I have seen it work in all my two stroke yard tools, motorcycles, and cars. In larger applications like vehicles I think it is more of a prevention thing than anything else. I have never done the carbon clean. I have had people put 2 stroke oil gas in some ATV's and motorcycles that really bogged them down. I put sea foam in the gas and it cleaned it right up. I also find that when I use seafoam in my tanks I getting a small amount better MPG. Not significant but that is not why I use it personally.

As far as most other products they are garbage. I posted a thread about BG products because I recently saw some amazing stuff happen when their products were used.

My buddy had a land rover disco. Infamous for leaking. BG make a coolant seal......yes I know they are terrible and can mess up your systems. I agree. However the BG stuff is made with an organic compound derived from a plant. When that compound hits air in the cooling system it seals it nice and tight. It is pretty amazing stuff. He has been driving with this stuff in his cooling system for 30k miles now. No issues. Instead of a 4k dollar fix it cost 10 dollars. I could not believe it. So now I always run their super cool in my jeep.

Those are the only "gimmicky" additives I endorse because I once was against them all until I saw results.

Hopeflly my TOYO OEM T-STAT replacement will help

This is a great thread!

[timsrv]

I know the cooling system stop leak products work, but as a mechanic I have also seen them plug-up radiators, heater cores, & make thermostats stick. These issues don't usually occur right away, they slowly take their toll (like hardening of the arteries). I don't have experience with the specific brand & formulation you mention, but suspect it would/could do the same.

As for the Seafoam, So far I'm keeping an open mind. In order to keep my master certified tech status I am required to regularly attend manufacturer sponsered seminars & troubleshooting clinics. It impresses me that Onan actually endorses Seafoam and recommends it's use to help de-carbonize their engines. I purchased a bottle of it a couple years back, but so far I haven't run into a carbon build-up issue serious enough to justify it's use/test it's effectiveness. Tim

[skibum]

I have been watching this thread for a while now, so thought I'd throw an idea out there. My buddy's dad ran a radiator shop many years ago (closed in the mid 80's) and one of his radiator leak solutions was black pepper. I've proved it out on a couple old Chevy pickups, as a workable solution. So, if you find yourself in the middle of nowhere with a leak, and a can of pepper, you can get back to civilization.

[holywolf]

I have been watching this thread for a while now, so thought I'd throw an idea out there. My buddy's dad ran a radiator shop many years ago (closed in the mid 80's) and one of his radiator leak solutions was black pepper. I've proved it out on a couple old Chevy pickups, as a workable solution. So, if you find yourself in the middle of nowhere with a leak, and a can of pepper, you can get back to civilization.

That's nutty!
Do you know the "science" behind doing this?

[skibum]

I don't know the science, but I would imagine that the pepper rushes toward the leak and clumps there. It's not a permanent solution, but it did work. I used to keep a can of pepper, a jug of antifreeze, maybe some power steering fluid up in the "trunk" area afforded by the roomy grill .

[holywolf]

I know the cooling system stop leak products work, but as a mechanic I have also seen them plug-up radiators, heater cores, & make thermostats stick. These issues don't usually occur right away, they slowly take their toll (like hardening of the arteries). I don't have experience with the specific brand & formulation you mention, but suspect it would/could do the same

Yeah I have seen it too and steer people away.

The difference in the BG is it is an organic plant material and it does not clog up any systems and seals the holes.
At 30k miles and no system clogs I would say it is an advancement in quick stop products.

I used some and it worked for 10k miles on a vehicle without issue and then I sold the vehicle to a buddy and it still is not leaking.

It is David Blaine in a bottle!

[toytime]

Hi Tim, where / how exactly did you mount fan? Is it mounted to the water pump or to another pulley? I have an 87 AT not a 5 speed where do you recommend I mount fan, also I see your using a 3300 uf cap is there also a spec for the diode is it just controlling direction of current flow, and is it necessary to have the override switch with temp sensor thanks Ralph

[Harbilly]

Hi Tim, where / how exactly did you mount fan? Is it mounted to the water pump or to another pulley? I have an 87 AT not a 5 speed where do you recommend I mount fan, also I see your using a 3300 uf cap is there also a spec for the diode is it just controlling direction of current flow, and is it necessary to have the override switch with temp sensor thanks Ralph

Toytime:
I hung mine as a 'pusher' fan on the front of the rad years ago using the zip tie things that pull through a washer pressing against the fins that are sold exactly for this purpose. Years and no issues.
1986 AT 2wd
bill

[timsrv]

As shown on page 2 of this thread, I just mounted the fan to the radiator using THESE. They poke through the radiator fins and hold the fan securely to it.

I'm not an electronics guy (no former training) I just experiment with stuff until I'm able to make it do what I want. A different size cap and/or diode might work better and/or last longer than what I used, but my method has been working well (I've been very happy with it). If/when I do this again I'll likely use a higher temp switch (like a 195 deg F), but the one I used is okay. Occasionally I'll need to start & move my van after the fan has already timed out, but the coolant temp is still above 170 deg, so the fan runs for another 15 minutes (unnecessary drain on the battery). Still, battery has never gone dead, just think it would be better with a 195 temp switch.

I never use the override switch, so in retrospect I would likely not install this if I do this again. Tim

[toytime]

Ok now I feel like an idiot I glanced over the pic's and thought you added the fan blade on the left mounted to the engine wow talk about a brain cloud thanks guys for setting me straight. Ralph

[SummerRose]

You all rock
I'm truly amazed

and also ...
Alas! I am a lady... and would rather or myself repeatedly then attempt this job mainly because I feel it's likely very simple for someone who's done it already (or a mechanic) and would take me quite a bit longer to wrap my head around .

That said, I'll be traveling most/if not all of our country for the next 6 mos. and would LOVE to pay someone to do this for me along my route...

Here is my likely route and dates when I'll be in each state UNTIL (then I'll be leaving the next day to go onto the next listed state):
Iowa FEBRUARY 1st
New Hampshire FEBRUARY 9th,
Nevada FEBRUARY 20th,
South Carolina FEBRUARY 27, (maybe)
Texas MARCH 1st,
Michigan MARCH 8th, (maybe)
Florida MARCH 15th,
Illinois MARCH 15th, (maybe)
Ohio MARCH 15th, (maybe)
New York APRIL 19th,
Pennsylvania APRIL 26th,
California JUNE 7th, then to
D.C. JUNE 14th, then back to to
Philadelphia until JULY 29th



In the meantime I'm going to drive my van... when I stop, I'll lift my seat to let the heat escape... and see what happens when I get back in and try to start my van again.

Once I'm clear it's a hot soak issue, (which I'm near 100% certain it is) I'll look back here and hopefully have some offers with locations for someone (several someones??) to do the work and hopefully you'll be in the flow of my travels. I'd be happy to purchase the parts and deliver them to whatever address is best for "you" or buy them and keep them with me until I get to someone who is willing/able to get the job done...
TIM?


On the other hand if "you" are confident anyone can do this... if you would kindly send me simple, concise, step by step instructions (cut and paste from all these scattered posts would work too), with step by step images (yes, I know I'm dreaming on that last one!) on how to do this myself... I'll do my best to make it happen or perhaps find someone local to make this happen. I'm good with putting computers together... and have worked on cars from time to time (change the starter/help my dad with plugs/etc.) so I just may be happy enough to tackle this myself if "you're" confident that I can do it.

Much appreciated!
And now that my head is exploding I'll move on for now...

Thanks!
Summer Rose

[SummerRose]

My mechanic who has been working on my van suggested I open the gas cap and let the heat escape that way...

Is that an easier fix then lifting my drivers seat or is he not understanding the issue?

Thanks again!

SR

[timsrv]

No, the place that needs to be cooler is the fuel rail (it's on the engine). Venting at the tank would have no positive effect. One thing you could also do (just temporary) would be to floor the throttle just as you turn it off. Let it begin to rev before turning off the key. The throttle being open causes vacuum to drop and this in-turn increases fuel pressure. This increased pressure (at the moment of shut down) will increase boiling temperature of the fuel in the rail. Tim

[SummerRose]

Got it. Thanx

Care to install a fan, etc. for me when on my travels?


I understand if you're too busy... It's possible my mechanic will do it when I come back to Cali in May/June...

Thanks again!

[timsrv]

A few years back when the economy was dead I diversified for a while and one of those extra things I did was auto repair. Thankfully the RV business is booming again and I've got my hands full with that. So unfortunately this means no extra time for wrenching on cars (except for my own). Good luck. Tim

[kcg795]

By the air filter, there is a wire you can jump that'll cause the fuel pump to turn on. I was thinking about installing a time-delay relay to that. That way, when you turn the key to the "On" position, it'll run the fuel pump for a couple seconds. A lot of modern cars do this, but not our Vans. The fuel pump doesn't start running until you start cranking. It seems to make more sense to let the fuel pump run a cycle first so fresh, cool fuel can enter the lines and pressurize the system.

[dogger562]

Lol, I'm surprised you made it through all that. Sometimes I get started and just can't stop . Heat soak is hard on your starter and embarrassing when witnessed by others......other than that it's just a nuisance. Over time, the excessive heat in the engine compartment will harden rubber and plastic parts. Tim

BTW, high octane gas won't help. If your engine doesn't ping on the 87 octane stuff, then more octane is just a waste of money.

Three months later and I'm still with this problem, I've only had a couple of days to work on it dough, but it's starting to bug the heck out me. I've already checked fuel pressure and the EGR they seemed good. The one question I have is does "heat soak" happen over night because that's where my problem is at. Becouse everything is cold then gas, fuel rail, or would gas evaporated leaving air in rail? I also tried leaving engine cover/seat up all night just to see if that cured the problem, but it dint help. Any advice

[timsrv]

By definition heat soak is a problem created by heat. Problems encountered when cold are not heat soak related.